what an asinine idea

**BlueWahooChambordDevil** · June 20th, 2007, 01:47 AM

NYC poor to get cash for good behavior

NEW YORK - Poor residents will be rewarded for good behavior "? like $300 for doing well on school tests, $150 for holding a job and $200 for visiting the doctor "? under an experimental anti-poverty program that city officials detailed Monday.

The rewards have been used in other countries, including Brazil and Mexico, and have drawn widespread praise for changing behavior among the poor. Mayor Michael Bloomberg traveled to Mexico this spring to study the healthy lifestyle payments, also known as conditional cash transfers.

In New York, the two-year pilot program with about 14,000 participants will use private funds Bloomberg has raised because he did not want to spend government money on something that is highly experimental. More than $43 million has been raised toward the $53 million goal, Deputy Mayor Linda Gibbs said.

The theory behind cash rewards is that poor people are trapped in a cycle of repeated setbacks that keep them from climbing out of poverty. A person who doesn't keep up with his vaccinations and doctor's visits, for example, may get sick more often and struggle to stay employed.

Bloomberg, a billionaire Republican, said he believes paying people in such circumstances to make good decisions could help break those patterns. The program "gives New Yorkers in poverty a financial incentive to look ahead and make decisions that will improve their prospects for the future," he said in a statement.

But some critics have raised questions about cash reward programs, saying they promote the misguided idea that poor people could be successful if they just made better choices.

"It just reinforces the impression that if everybody would just work hard enough and change their personal behavior we could solve poverty in this country, and that's not reflected in the facts," said Margy Waller, co-founder of Inclusion, a research and policy group in Washington.

Waller, who served as a domestic policy adviser in the Clinton administration, said it would be more effective to focus on labor issues, such as making sure wage laws are enforced and improving benefits for working people.

Among the possible rewards in New York's program are $25 for attending parent-teacher conferences, $25 per month for a child who maintains a 95 percent school attendance record, $400 for graduating high school, $100 for each family member who sees the dentist every six months and $150 a month for adults who work full time.

The World Bank model for cash reward programs in other countries is that the value of the incentive should equal about a third of a household's income to have any lasting influence on changing behavior. The average amount that a family or adult can earn through the rewards each year is about $3,000 to $6,000; a family of three living in poverty earns about $17,000 a year.

Recipients, who are being selected this summer before the program begins in the fall, will be able to have the money deposited directly into their bank accounts. If they don't have accounts, they can get cards that are like debit cards but cannot be overdrawn.

The city is asking the federal government to excuse the payments from being taxed. Participants will be divided into three smaller programs that have different criteria and awards: one for about 2,550 families, one for 2,400 single adults and another for 9,000 children in grades 4 to 7.

To measure the effectiveness of the rewards, control groups of similar size will not be paid but will be studied by participating in regular surveys and reviews from an outside social policy research group, Gibbs said. The control participants will receive small incentives, such as weekly MetroCards for paying bus and subway fares, for their time and trouble.

**89bluedevil** · June 20th, 2007, 07:25 AM

But some critics have raised questions about cash reward programs, saying they promote the misguided idea that poor people could be successful if they just made better choices.

"It just reinforces the impression that if everybody would just work hard enough and change their personal behavior we could solve poverty in this country, and that's not reflected in the facts," said Margy Waller, co-founder of Inclusion, a research and policy group in Washington.

This quote above is a big part of the problem. Why would we expect anyone to work harder and make good personal choices? If they did they may not need all of the handouts from the government.

**centennialdawg** · June 20th, 2007, 09:31 AM

Our current welfare system is so full of holes and cracks that you could probably get a check if you tried.

**BlueWahooChambordDevil** · June 20th, 2007, 10:46 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: centennialdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our current welfare system is so full of holes and cracks that you could probably get a check if you tried. </div></div>
wonderful......but its not about wanting a check......its about not paying these clowns for doing what is expected of them as kids

did anybody pay you to go to school??

i paid tuition to go to school......i wish it was the other way around

idiotic idea

**neutral88** · June 20th, 2007, 11:26 AM

Just another way for people to get handouts...

Getting a handout seems to be fairly easy these days...

I have a family member, (and I do not approve of this), who lives in Government housing, works in Holston Defense, saw her last check: net $570.00 for two weeks, draws food stamps, has a live in companion who works at Exide and has for two years....Now maybe I'm just cruel but it pisses me off that I have to help pay for their food and housing!!!

**BlueWahooChambordDevil** · June 20th, 2007, 11:33 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just another way for people to get handouts...

Getting a handout seems to be fairly easy these days...

I have a family member, (and I do not approve of this), who lives in Government housing, works in Holston Defense, saw her last check: net $570.00 for two weeks, draws food stamps, has a live in companion who works at Exide and has for two years....Now maybe I'm just cruel but it pisses me off that I have to help pay for their food and housing!!! </div></div>
see now in a case like that where they actually work and struggle to make ends meet i dont mind nearly as much that my tax money goes to help them out.......its not nearly as bad as some of the asshats that dont make an effort and still get to live off our tax dollars without any effort at all

im not sure if you did the math but a net of $570 every 2 weeks is only $1140 a month and under 14k for the year

i know i sure as hell couldnt live on that

**neutral88** · June 20th, 2007, 11:39 AM

they pay $53.50 per month for rent....In a house, not an appartment...and brag about how they are getting away with it...

they do it simply like this,
1) Claim your kids live there that don't....Claims their kids live there, that don't, None of which have jobs...
2) don't tell the government officials that you have a live-in man who works at Exide and has to make over 25,000, and is a convicted felon so it is illegal for him to live in Goverment housing....

[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Bingo-You got handouts!!!

**neutral88** · June 20th, 2007, 11:40 AM

Still happy to give them your money???

**BlueWahooChambordDevil** · June 20th, 2007, 11:45 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they pay $53.50 per month for rent....In a house, not an appartment...and brag about how they are getting away with it...

they do it simply like this,
1) Claim your kids live there that don't....Claims their kids live there, that don't, None of which have jobs...
2) don't tell the government officials that you have a live-in man who works at Exide and has to make over 25,000, and is a convicted felon so it is illegal for him to live in Goverment housing....

[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Bingo-You got handouts!!!
</div></div>
now thats alot different.......and thats exactly the reason the system needs to be tweaked and we need better enforcement of crap like that

all it takes it random checks at the house......turn up something like that......then they get told they are assout to pack their shitt and get out

i know that kind of stuff happens more often than it should.....and the people who do that and abuse the system should be punished for it......but for those who are genuinely struggling yet make a concerted effort and still need some help.....make the effort and i have no problem.....just dont get stupid and abuse the system......and if you do.....i hope the place burns down with all your crap inside.....and then you have nothing and deserve it